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BILL MOYERS: But the believers say, well, that it's sacrilegious what you're doing, and it's against God.
SALMAN RUSHDIE: Yes. Well, unfortunately that's something that they may have to deal with. It seems to me that when there is conflict between the liberty of speech and the beliefs of private individuals the liberty of speech must always take precedence. Because otherwise every other liberty, including freedom of religious observance, is put into question. It's no accident I think that freedom of religious observance and freedom of speech are jointly protected by the First Amendment, you know. It's as important to have one as to have the other. And indeed in my view you can't have one without the other.
SALMAN RUSHDIE: Yes. Well, unfortunately that's something that they may have to deal with. It seems to me that when there is conflict between the liberty of speech and the beliefs of private individuals the liberty of speech must always take precedence. Because otherwise every other liberty, including freedom of religious observance, is put into question. It's no accident I think that freedom of religious observance and freedom of speech are jointly protected by the First Amendment, you know. It's as important to have one as to have the other. And indeed in my view you can't have one without the other.
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BILL MOYERS: But wait a minute--are you looking to define what you call a spiritual life only as a writer, or are you ever seduced, tempted--
SALMAN RUSHDIE: No, no, no.
BILL MOYERS: --into thinking that for yourself?
SALMAN RUSHDIE: No, no. Oh, no.
SALMAN RUSHDIE: I'm a hard-line atheist I have to say.
SALMAN RUSHDIE: No, no, no.
BILL MOYERS: --into thinking that for yourself?
SALMAN RUSHDIE: No, no. Oh, no.
SALMAN RUSHDIE: I'm a hard-line atheist I have to say.
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BILL MOYERS: How do you think the fundamentalists see an atheist? How do you think you are seen in their eyes?
SALMAN RUSHDIE: As somebody entirely without a moral sense. You know, I mean, that's to say, it is, in a way, one of the weaknesses of religious argument. That they argue that you cannot have a moral life unless you accept the moral code, which is defended by an ultimate arbiter. You know, of whatever god it might be. Or godhead it might be, in the case of polytheisms. My view has been, quite simply, that religion has been one of the ways in which human beings, throughout history, have tried to codify and organize their moral sense of the world. But that's to say, I would argue, that our sense of good and evil, our sense of right and wrong, our moral sense precedes religion. It's not created by it. It is, in fact, what creates our need for religion. So if we can accept that, as human beings, there's something intrinsic in us, which wishes to have an understanding of right and wrong, you know, and that religion is an expression of that, then of course, you can find other expressions of that, which are not formal religions. You know, and I think the history of the last couple hundred years will show there's been much philosophy, much thinking, precisely about this. How do you base a moral view of the world on a non-religious platform?
SALMAN RUSHDIE: As somebody entirely without a moral sense. You know, I mean, that's to say, it is, in a way, one of the weaknesses of religious argument. That they argue that you cannot have a moral life unless you accept the moral code, which is defended by an ultimate arbiter. You know, of whatever god it might be. Or godhead it might be, in the case of polytheisms. My view has been, quite simply, that religion has been one of the ways in which human beings, throughout history, have tried to codify and organize their moral sense of the world. But that's to say, I would argue, that our sense of good and evil, our sense of right and wrong, our moral sense precedes religion. It's not created by it. It is, in fact, what creates our need for religion. So if we can accept that, as human beings, there's something intrinsic in us, which wishes to have an understanding of right and wrong, you know, and that religion is an expression of that, then of course, you can find other expressions of that, which are not formal religions. You know, and I think the history of the last couple hundred years will show there's been much philosophy, much thinking, precisely about this. How do you base a moral view of the world on a non-religious platform?
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BILL MOYERS: What is morality?
SALMAN RUSHDIE: Well, it's as I see it, I think, something intrinsic in us, which wishes to distinguish between right and wrong. And I think we are hard-wired to it. You know, in the way that scientists now believe that language is an instinct. That we're hard-wired to develop it. You know. And I think that morality is somewhere in there in the DNA. That we are created, born as creatures who wish to know is it okay to do this or not okay to do this, you know. And we ask ourselves that question all the time. And religion is one of the answers.
But it's in my view only one of the ways. It's a lot of the answers. But it's perfectly possible for me to say that we can as civilized people create moral codes to live by. We do not need that ultimate arbiter. And one answer to the question is democracy. And it seems to me that what happens in a democracy is that we don't have an absolute view of what is right and wrong. We have an argument about it, you know. And the argument never ends.
SALMAN RUSHDIE: Well, it's as I see it, I think, something intrinsic in us, which wishes to distinguish between right and wrong. And I think we are hard-wired to it. You know, in the way that scientists now believe that language is an instinct. That we're hard-wired to develop it. You know. And I think that morality is somewhere in there in the DNA. That we are created, born as creatures who wish to know is it okay to do this or not okay to do this, you know. And we ask ourselves that question all the time. And religion is one of the answers.
But it's in my view only one of the ways. It's a lot of the answers. But it's perfectly possible for me to say that we can as civilized people create moral codes to live by. We do not need that ultimate arbiter. And one answer to the question is democracy. And it seems to me that what happens in a democracy is that we don't have an absolute view of what is right and wrong. We have an argument about it, you know. And the argument never ends.
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(Salman Rushdie em entrevista; ler na íntegra.)
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